Sign up to receive new product announcements, special offers, and the annual product catalog. For those with a suppressor, the American Eagle 220g will provide a heavy projectile that when suppressed, is easy on the ears, which is important for close quarters that one may encounter in a home defense situation. I feel the concept by design puts less stress on the internal parts and I hope manufacturers continue developing in that direction in order to better refine how we adjust ar gas systems. -----BEGIN REPORT----- Ballistically I agree that the 300BLK doesn't outperform much of anything when it comes to 16" and unsuppressed, but it kills deer out to at least 200 yards just fine, and that's what I want. by bluebird Fri May 27, 2011 1:43 am, Post Not sure what diameter gas port it has My Problem - Supersonic rounds = seem to function fine / no problems That is what AAC designed the 300 blk to do and they know how to do it. OK, so it is a ridiculous thing to open up ports and basically ruin perfectly good barrels. We utilize state of the art 5-axis CNC machines to mill all our .308 and AR-15 80 percent lower receivers to incredibly precise tolerances using premium billet aluminum. Looks like it will be an SR7 with 90T when they hit the well stocked local Class 3 dealer! The .300blk round has skyrocketed in popularity the past decade. America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Subsonic Success: Getting Good Function From a .300 Blackout, The preceding is a specially-adapted excerpt from, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). Shopping with us is absolutely safe - you never have to worry about credit card safety when shopping here Share your latest AR build or photos from the range with #RangeDayFriday for a chance to win a new firearm! Unsuppressed, a significant muzzle flash will occur that may hamper low light visibility, the report may cause hearing damage and temporary disorientation. Civil? . -ms-user-select: none;
I dont like running a valve on anything but a rifle-length system. This is the ammunition you want to train with, hunt with, and be the most familiar with. Pretty much, its for those who want a bigger bullet in an AR-15 with a minimum of technical distractions (some call them problems). I got one just to have another round to play with. We stand behind all our products and were here to support you. The backpressure will not be enough to run reliably (if at all), and the accuracy will will also suffer. if running nothing special and you just want a 30 bore get a PSA 7.62 x 39 upper kit. ( 3) Write a Review Ask a Question. font-size: 1rem;
This purpose excludes taking down big game effectively and ethically. In a possible third part of the series, Im considering asking a few hunters and invasive species control experts (wild hog eradicators) for their opinion. YTZjMjk4NWM1MTdlNTA0ODc1NTQ5ZmRkODE5MzkwNjAyNmQwZTc0M2RhOWY2 But! No it is NOT worth it unless you are going to go shorter than 10.5". I have 2 16's, bolt and one AR. You don't have an "issue" with your 300blk if it won't run subsonic ammo UNSUPPRESSED! Get an AAC barrel (pistol gas) and run M4 style BCG, buffer and spring and you are GTG with super or subs. Given your situation, a "pistol" setup may be in order. I think that's what OP is after. 300 BLK has been considered a rather expensive round even before the logistical infrastructure was swamped and manufacturing capabilities were struck by limited staff and astronomical demand. I keep seeing guys new to the 300 BLK on other forums asking about how to open gas ports to reliably run subs without a suppressor and I just don't get it. Expanding subsonic bullets have almost twice the material to work with which allows them to expand much larger than lighter expanding supersonic bullets sometimes as much as three times original bullet diameter with machined solid copper. SILENCER SATURDAY #37: Subsonic 300BLK Shootout. If not, and you need to hit targets at distances past 3-400 yards then opting to shoot 5.56 NATO instead will save yourself some money. Supersonic 300BLK can have nearly three times the kinetic energy as a subsonic 300BLK. These are not as common now as they once were, but an AR-15 carrier doesnt have as long of a full-profile section on its body as does the USGI-standard M16-format carrier (which is far and away the most common now). Based on these points, for stopping a human target as quickly as possible, what would favor the subsonic .300 over the 45? An AR-15 carrier is about a half-ounce lighter (though it varies with each manufacturer), and, working within this world of milliseconds, that matters. I enjoy them just as much as the short ones. Not my thread, but I think I was just sold in what to do with my resent acquisition. Versus 6.8, you're not gaining anything but diameter. Based on my work it's very tricky to get subsonics to cycle a standard-length XCR-L action, even . Running subsonic through my purpose-build supersonic blackout required changing a different buffer and a shortened spring and it runs, but its sluggish. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! As a comparison, a 230 grain round of Federal JST .45ACP ammunition has a muzzle velocity of 863 fps and has 380 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle when fired from a 1911. Accuracy is determined by spin stabilization, and 1:8 is sufficient at subsonic speeds for up to 225gr BTHPs; transonic for 240grs. 300 Blackout Ballistics Test Results. 300blk subs are POINTLESS to run without a can, theyre still loud, less effective and unreliable, with a can yes they are super quiet and badass. I had ran the scenario of a suppressed subsonic .300 blackout against a suppressed 45/45+P (still subsonic). It is still fun to shoot, even though i now have an 8.5" sbr suppresssed. - So, the Mode 1 set screw, fully inserted, allows the maximum amount to gas to be used in cycling the weapon? My research turned up the fact that without the ability of the high velocity of a supersonic .300 to transfer hydrostatic shock you will merely be punching .30 caliber rounds through your target. Even though you may not be sneaking through houses in Syria, being able to walk around or hunt without EarPro and not have to worry about your hearing if you take a shot has significant advantages. Your email address will not be published. A little edgy. At 200 yards, the 60.5 inch bullet drop of a .45 round is similar to a .300 Blackout subsonic round. If you like wasting money on subsonic ammo put a lighter buffer or Nemo arms reduced power spring. The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! I sent an email request to SA with a single question that was never responded to. Read more: SIG SAUER MCX Rifle Review With Video Reply Save Like 7.62Kolectr Home Ammunition Subsonic Success: Getting Good Function From a .300 Blackout. Supersonic ammunition will provide more range, energy delivered on target, and less drop or wind-drift at range. For the love of goodness gentleman, I wish I didnt have to make this post but Ive seen about 10 on this subject in the past week. by este Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:16 pm, Post With bullet weights in the 190-220 grain range, and a muzzle velocity below 1,100 FPS, 300 Blackout is one of the best cartridges for shooting subsonic rounds. ATI Introduces the Omni Hybrid Maxx Rifle - The Shooter's Log, .300 AAC Blackout: Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick - The Shooter's Log, Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. I have the SA Victor .308 rifle with the adjustable gas block. The additional bullet weight keeps the rounds from breaking the sound barrier, and gives them as much energy as possible. As far as reliability and changing the system from sub to supersonic on a pistols length ar pistol, I have had luck using the superlative arms non restrictive bleed off style gas block. Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. Subsonic rounds have about the same energy on target as a .45 ACP round. I cut a couple even with my shorter gas system on the subsonic. MWZhMzE4M2MxNmUzYTg2YmQxN2ZjMWFjOWY0ZWFjYThkZTNjZjU0NzJiZGEy OUR GST-9 IS UNAFFECTED BY THE LATEST 12/28 ATF CLARIFICATION LETTER & SHIPS IN 3 DAYS! For anything larger, or at distance, we would recommend going supersonic. 300 Blackout subsonic is one of the quietest rounds to suppress, particularly when fired through a closed breech firearm like a bolt action or single shot rifle. Btw: Supersonic ammo is also a really bad idea because of the VERY loud report and large muzzle flash. Depending on the load, some 300 blackout subsonic rounds are quiet enough to comfortably use without ear protection. font-weight: 400;
When I first built a .300, I couldnt get it to run reliably with bolt-over base failures, double feeds, etc. What is the diameter that your expanded subsonic .300 will achieve in the human anatomy vs that of the much wider 45(+P or even non +P for that matter)? I am planning a .300 BLK as soon as the XCR is available, and I am only interested in subsonic/suppressed. If have two, 6.8s and you are thinking of a 300 blk.i say do it. ODdjMzY2OGY3ZTFlNmE1NzZmODA4NTY2MjM5YzAwNTRjMTc1MTdiZTkzZjE0 If no SBR, do an 8" pistol. I like the x39 because I can blast cheap steel cased ammo and not have to scrounge for brass. While subsonic ammunition surely does have its benefits when it comes to covert operations, close range, and personal defense, this kind of bullet is not ideal for the big game hunter. First, supersonic ammunition was tested unsuppressed through a custom AR-15 pistol with a Brownells 10.5-inch .300 Blackout barrel with a 1-in-8-inch twist rate. You must log in or register to reply here. by doubloon Fri May 27, 2011 9:49 am, Post Somewhere in south Texas I think makes or sells M1A actions, barrels and other parts. Bleed off/non restrictive, finger adjustable, battle proven, reliable. In fact, SOF Operators have reported shooting terrorists in one room of a house, and not having woken up bad guys sleeping in adjacent rooms. I dont think thats really a factor. Subsonics cycle with a suppressor almost universally with all barrel makes. Supersonic ammo can be used with a suppressor device to trap the gasses that exit the muzzle, but it wont be any good for the sound of the projectile splitting the sound barrier. If this is a primary concern and you think you'll be shooting at targets within 100 yards then subsonic rounds complimented with a suppressor device is worth exploring. Thank you for a clear and consisce desciption. Pandemic pricing is not over yet so if you are already an AR-15 owner, it's won't take much more for you to be able to start shooting 300 BLK. Subsonic Blackout has a radically milder blast and report than 5.56 or supersonic Blackout. YTMyZGRiMDU5NDZiNjA1ZmIwMjgwZTgwMWE0ODkxZGYwMzFiZWRjMTU3In0= If there's no can then this is a dumb argument. This setup will should work excellently with subs and supers, suppressed, suppressed, and any other situation you can throw at it.. Mostly correct. The only reason I did a BLk was an 8" barrel and suppressor. I have a feeling I know how most of them will answer, but Ive been wrong a few times in the past. The 300BLK is a very capable rifle in the 16 inch configuration and can take any 4 or 2 legged animal that either the 7.62X39 or the 6.8 can in normal shooting ranges of up to 300 yards. Whatever you shoot at will be able to know theyre being shot at immediately and they'll react appropriately. cursor: pointer;
Download the app DOWNLOAD The price of subsonic 300 BLK now averages $1.15 - $2.85 per round (Consider this cost if you plan on using subsonic 300 BLK to shoot follow up shots rapidly on target). These advantages are powerful features of subsonic rounds and are made the most effective when applied with a suppressor device. Please keep it civil people. Not casting doubt on it's supersonic capabilities, but if I'm shooting a .308" diameter 16" supersonic, it'll be on a 7.62 NATO type carbine AR platform. Forget about cut brass. If not, and you need to hit targets at distances past 3-400 yards then opting to shoot 5.56 NATO instead will save yourself some money. No room for a dissertation on gas system operation, but as the gas expands behind the bullet traveling down the barrel bore, an increasingly greater volume is available for the gas to occupy. On my build, I chose to accept the one-trick-pony approach. M2UyMzRiN2ZjNmVlNjc2MzVhZWYxY2YyZTc3NThhMDkyMjY3YjllMDhkNGJm FNG / New Forum Member today, registering just after my first range session with my new SA SAINT .300 Blackout pistol. The clear advantages of sub-sonic loads are, of course, sound suppression which can conceal both presence & position. My pro shop at the range had no idea what was going wrong, they had me try different ammunition, including supersonic to make it work. No big surprise guys but Short barrel+weak ammo+ no backpressure=shit reliability ps. Basically run it like a subgun. Thought about getting a 10.5 barrel to see if it corrects the cycling issue. Having said that, that doesn't necessarily mean that a shooter can't enjoy the benefits of reduced muzzel signature just because they can't or won't own a supressor. MmQ0NGIwYWY0ZDkzMjQ3MTA3YjE5MTM0ZDFkNzFjZmU4YTNkODkwNGE5YWFl 2023 Modulus Arms | 80% Lower Receivers and 80 Lower Jigs. by Tom12.7 Fri May 27, 2011 7:58 am, Post -webkit-user-select: none;
300BLK is great if and ONLY if you are a reloader. I got into .300 BLK because it excels in short rifles and has subsonic ammo for suppressor use. margin-bottom: 10px;
And, yes, a supersonic blackout can have all the same extra-pressure-induced operation symptoms as a 5.56. Performance of 300 Blackout Subsonic meets or exceeds FBI Protocol terminal ballistic test requirements. MTk0M2U1ZTMxOGQyNTJjOTE5YzU1MTJiZjA2NTkwZDJkNWU2OTBiM2IzYTMw Thats another debate for others to work through in other articles, but its my story and Im sticking to it. -moz-user-select: none;
Is 300BLK worth it in supersonic unsuppressed ONLY appl.? Ive written thousands of words about its evils and ways to lower it for other applications. line-height: 1.5;
NmYzMzU2MjU0YmYzZjg4NDg1MTU4MWE0NDc4ZWUyODcyZTAwNjVhMmQxMjcy I was waiting until after the SHOT SHOW before I bought a suppressor to see what new thing came out. It's that quiet. This caliber has used up all the powder at about 9 of barrel, so it really affects carbine length systems imo. ZmFhY2U2NzcyNzJhN2Q2YzJkN2FhYWEwMzYwMDBjOTY0ZmFjMGE1NzMyNWIx Right, its only good for subsonic, but it runs perfectly! I can say that it hasnt seized up the way other restrictive style blocks have, and I feel thats a good sign. That' Router Jig Extreme (compatible with any AR caliber). I like it especially in the shorter guns, and, around here at least, its looked on as an effective Whitetail cartridge choice. Subsonics cycle with a suppressor almost universally with all barrel makes. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Subsonic is also preferred where the hunter wants to limit the maximum range of projectiles. The 110gr Barnes TAC TX are great hunting bullets, and while we could argue all day about ballistics, you can't argue that the 300BLK is the simplest conversion and its effective. ZmUxYmM0MjAwZCIsInNpZ25hdHVyZSI6IjZiNGY3ZjE4ZWI4NWIwNmFlNTli Centerfire shooters looking for ultimate quiet will often reach for 300 Blackout subsonic ammunition. I reload all my stuff so factory ammo prices aren't a consideration for me. Some specialize in long range shooting and some are biased toward short range stuff. NDJlODc5Y2JiNmNmNmJjNGExOWVjOTI4NGQ2MDYzOGMwNTkwMzU3MmFmZDM1 In the dark, maybe just up out of bed, and then theres a blinding fireball and an ear-splitting report, and its difficult to recover situational awareness, especially at my age, and even with my rail-mounted light. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. by 300Blk Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:00 pm, Post One reason I could think of is for using your AR on an indoor range that is limited to pistol calibers. I see you have some rounds made to expand in this article. The 300BLK can run both super and subsonic ammo with a change of a magazine. If youve chosen 300BLK to help accomplish this goal, youre on the right track. Products manufactured by 80% Arms carry a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects. .btn:not(:disabled):not(.disabled) {
I dont like that I need a tool and I hope someone makes one that is finger adjustable or at least adjusted by using a round. He's 11 and the subsonic unsuppressed functioned flawlessly and the recoil, even unsuppressed was negligible on my 16" AAC upper. With high-quality cartridge cases and primers, Subsonic Ammunition offers the performance and accuracy shooters have come to expect from Hornady. The first question to consider before you ask if you ought to use 300 blackout supersonic vs subsonic is whether or not you plan on shooting suppressed. The .300blk sub will likely be slightly louder than a 9mm sub, assuming similar barrel lengths. Reason for that is because the 300 BLK uses almost all the same AR parts used for a rifle chambered in .223/5.56mm. The newer braces are less ugly & stupid than just a couple years ago. However, they let me use my SDN6 that's collecting dust in their safe while waiting for my Form 4 to be approved. Does some damage with Barnes vor-tx bullets. I owned a SA 300BO Pistol and I wont say your wasting your time but I sold mine for that and other reasons. You might get away with it for a subsonic setup as described here, but since its so close to the chamber, the gas is at full fury and will wreck the valve apparatus in short order (flame-cutting). Oh, my only hog of this year so far was with a 16" Noveske 300BLK. by 300Blk Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:44 pm, Post Manufacturer #: SUP300BLK (20) UPC #: 020892224483. And! I have AR's in .22, 9mm, x39, .223, 6.5G and .308. I've thought about building a .300, but don't see the need.. Optimal performance is guaranteed if you run the barrel unsuppressed with supersonic ammo or suppressed with subsonics. Home defense in its most typical form is about getting yourself and your loved ones off the X. .btn {
MjI3YjA3MzA4NzgwNTg1ZWFhZDYzZDIwODBiN2U5YzkzNDkwN2NlYzVkNmRl Y2JlY2Q1YmJhNWYxMjYxZTFhNDI1Yzg0N2U1MmMzZGJlY2U3MTk5ODY0MTdk Long grooves in its gilding metal jacket combine with the bullets flat profile and the patented Flex Tip insert within its hollowpoint cavity to help it expand reliably at low velocities. transition: color .15s ease-in-out,background-color .15s ease-in-out,border-color .15s ease-in-out,box-shadow .15s ease-in-out;
SwedishMoose 3 mo. by 300Blk Fri May 27, 2011 9:36 am, Post Generated by Wordfence at Mon, 1 May 2023 8:13:48 GMT.Your computer's time: document.write(new Date().toUTCString());. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. So says every major hunting publication and its writers. 80% Arms sells AR-15 and .308 80% Lower Receivers, 80% Lower Jigs and other accessories which allow you to legally build a firearm at home in most states. .tfb-affiliate-link{
Final one was with a 5.56 Ruger American Ranch Rifle. ZDUxNWQzNTY2ZTJiNjVhN2RiMzgwOWMxNWVlNDlhN2UyYzM3MTRiOGEzN2Zh NzAxZTZjNWI1YTkzYjU4MzU0Nzc0YTU2MjFmMmYyNGQ0OTk3N2ZmN2QzYmZh Subsonic bullets generally boast a lighter recoil than their speedy relatives, and have an added weight coming to around 180-220 grains in a standard .300 Blackout load. If I couldn't suppress or SBR, I probably not even go with another AR. Subsonic Handgun utilizes tried-and-true XTP bullets that expand reliably at subsonic velocities. Frangible is best for the indoor range. This goes for animals also. In short a good expanding supersonic 300BLK is always ballistically superior to a good expanding subsonic 300BLK. The farther down the barrel the gas port is located, the lower the pressure will be by the time the bullet passes the port and the gas enters the port. There is no noise from the action or any created via the ejection process as noticed in a semi automatic firearm. Post So, being new to AGBs, here are my few thoughts and what I think I've figured out on their AGB. NWY3ODNkODRmZWU0NTQ5OTY4OWFkNDE5NDExZjE4ZTZmN2JmZjI0YzRhMWFh All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. On the downside, this heavy subsonic load will provide little to no expansion, and at handgun velocity (less than 2000fps) will poke holes and crush tissue, likely resulting in a through and through performance. If you believe Wordfence should be allowing you access to this site, please let them know using the steps below so they can investigate why this is happening. Access features of the Reloading Handbook on your mobile device with the Reloading App. by Recoil737 Fri May 27, 2011 4:38 am, Post The preceding is a specially-adapted excerpt from Glens newest book, Americas Gun: The Practical AR15. Hopefully, this thread will have a few more good responses and I'll just post a link to this discussion whenever a new 300 owner decides to ruin their barrel. The 7.62x39mm is another that can be made to be a great subsonic cartridge (but most factory ammo is supersonic). I have multiple 16 inch barrels in 300BLK and they work perfect. NTM5OTc1MGMzYzdhYTJiZGM5NmZjOGU0NWNhYjI0NDhjZjc5NWJjYWIxOThm A bullet traveling at higher speed means more energy that can be transferred to the target upon impact, more effective range, more tolerance to drop and wind drift. Factory ammo is unreasonable high, but reloads can be as cheap as 223. The pistol-length-port location requires the least amount of post-build tuning to get 100-percent reliability. Here is a great example of shooting 300 Blackout suppressed and unsuppressed using supersonic and subsonic ammo from Class 3 Ordnance. ZDJlOTQ0YzNkMDAyZTc2YjY5MWFjY2Q4MzIxOGVlNTAzYTQ1ZWZlMmU0MTQ0 NetJnkie 6 yr. ago Oh duh. A supersonic 300BLK round that does not deform or tumble in soft tissue will create only marginally more trauma that a heavier non-deforming non-tumbling subsonic bullet. The difference between subsonic rounds and supersonic rounds, as implied by their etymology, remain in their ability to break the sound barrier determined by how fast the projectile travels. 300BLK comes in two flavors: supersonic and subsonic. They are also more likely to be available than subsonic round stocks. Fact is, they are not out just yet - so you probably need a 5.56mm upper for now. I think carbine length systems and 16 barrels are part of the problem with .300 blk. Interested in picking up your own suppressor device? To make the latter work, the . Your access to this site was blocked by Wordfence, a security provider, who protects sites from malicious activity. If you don't have that roll to fill, you don't need it. Second, you have the. The setup was equipped with a Trijicon AccuPoint 5-20X50 scope, dialed to 20X. A 16" .300 blackout gun running supers and suppressed is still pretty friggin quiet. NmE5NjE4NzI1MTU2M2FjYWM3NDE4NTAzODdlOWYwZmVmMGYxZDUxNjllOWE5 Thats port pressure. Not technically the same as chamber pressure, but its from the same source. background-color: #ffc107;
300 was designed to fill the short and quiet roll. Save the heavier and stouter parts for supersonic. The armor was going to charge me a lot of money to find the problem until CMMG tech support told me. As supersonic ammo means using a lighter-weight grain (typically less than 180 grain), theyre no doubt the less expensive choice of rounds to train and plink with. You could run with subsonic rounds for quiet engagements while equipped with a suppressor to maintain the element of surprise and your hearing. 300BLK comes in two flavors: supersonic and subsonic. color: #212529;
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because. by hugegator Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:34 pm, Post The 16" bbl Blackouts do give more velocity for hunting than the short ones do. - And the Mode 3 screw allows a varied amount to gas to be used in cycling, and the correct amount of gas (and the setting of the AGB) is dependent on correct cycling, using the procedure outlined on page 35? Do yourself a favor and get one you deserve it. Nzk5NTZjMWJjMmY4OTNkODk0YTM1MGMxZjZiM2FiYTdiNTIxZjM4MmI0ODhi On the contrary, YouTube some videos on 300BO performance and you may be surprised. YTUxMmIyNTZhYzgzN2I2NjhlZGE3YWZjMTQzMmM2MDUxNDIyNWM2NWRhYzkx Id suggest running a standard USGI-spec buffer and plain old standard variety carbine-length spring for subsonic. Most subsonic blackout ammo uses a bullet in the 200-grain range, and, of course, .308 diameter. First, Im always willing to risk boring knowledgeable readers with really basic information because its important to start at the start. These lowered stats can result in unethical game kills and can lead to animal suffering even if you think you made a clean shot. 300 blackout is very much a do-it-all round, but if you're not gonna be shooting suppressed and the shorter barrel length doesn't matter go 556. .
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