But the very first person that Taylor had an impact on was actually yourself, which I think is kind of beautiful. This is who I am.. They are available to me. Billions happened to come out after I had just finished filming season 4 of Orange and I just missed the moment. Theres a character, Milo, whos Black in Danger & Eggs. And sometimes youre just at the last door, which sounds terrible. Thats not something that they have to be. Again, given the context of the things that weve seen all of the characters do and what we know that theyre capable of, I think those moments certainly hit me more when you see something like that, and that was a beautiful scene, and I really loved that arc. Your character has had some nude scenes, including a sex scene opposite Mike Birbiglias venture philanthropist character last season. Steven is a gender nonconforming boy, and his family are basically these feminine non-binary, non-gendered aliens who are super warriors. Specifically as it pertains to gender identity. And so Im wondering if you wouldnt mind I know youve told this story before talking a little bit about what was your framework for understanding yourself prior, and then also, how do you currently identify? It is something that I must cultivate and it is something that I must consciously do or it will go away. Below, some highlights from our quick but deep conversation. And having seen the first two movies, I just said yes, before I even read the script. And you will frankly eliminate the likelihood that you have a non-binary character that Im going to go, God, you really need to do that over because that was bad.. The mission is to produce work that supports and uplifts historically marginalized and disenfranchised people. And I think these are rooms with people who are somewhat familiar with gender identity or the concept of pronouns, or certainly when I use mine could be like, What did that mean? So yes, Im just relating to the fact that, as you said, the burden is always on or predominantly on non-binary or trans people, gender nonconforming people, to say, like, Heres how Im different instead of the burden or the joy actually on all of us getting to self-determine, be autonomous and have that respected. The other may be unintentional, but it definitely resonated with me, particularly due to the animation style. Getting to wear drag is super fun. In season two, we have Axe in that scene where Taylor introduces themself and says, These are my pronouns, and Axe just says, Okay. And Mafee is the other person in that scene, who we already know is sort of Taylors BFF, very quick BFF, so we see Axe accepting Taylor in that moment and just moving on and being like, Okay, on to business. And then there is Axe I think correcting Dollar Bill in a subsequent episode. And so you have these sort of transgressive representations that come out of bigotry or thoughtlessness or a place of humor. And so here I fully am. And so I think one of the incredible complexities that the show holds about this character of Bobby Axelrod is that, as you said, hes all the things. I can enter the actor category because the word actor is non-gendered and that works for me. I think one of the greatest gifts of trans and non-binary representation on TV less so on film, unfortunately is that by featuring people who do not exist inside the binary, it opens the door for cisgender people to break down their own toxic gender stereotypes and reimagine characters and people and what a man and a woman would look and act like and what kinds of roles they can get. Taylor has a lot of storylines, and I love that most of them actually are not centered around their identity, but do you have input? It wasn't the time for me to come out back then. And its whats at the base levelideologies of racism and patriarchy, etc.thats the conversation I want to be having. I love Taylor. This is something that youve been speaking about for several years. And I think you can kind of sniff that out. But the thing about non-binary identity is that you know that youre neither of those. Everybody else around Pat was obsessed with Pats gender, which if you talk to trans people, non-binary people, thats kind of what the world is like now. Asia Kate Dillon, an actor with non-binary gender identity, was approached for the role of The Adjudicator, who exercised admirable agency in their request to have their character also be non-binary. I could use a little help and understanding: Is that the same as or different from or similar to gender nonconforming or genderqueer or gender fluid? Featured Image byAsia Kate Dillon / Instagram. What Shows Have Been Renewed or Canceled? Episode 24: Asia Kate Dillon Beyond the Binary, Intro music: Jaunty, upbeat chords interspersed with the sound of a DJ scratching a record back and forth on a turntable. In animation, because it doesnt have to ascribe to the physical realism that exists in live-action film and TV, you can be super expressive, they say, pointing to Cartoon Networks Adventure Time among other recent examples. What does it mean for you to fall in love with someone, and they fall in love with you, under the assumption that you are one thing and youre actually the other? Asia Kate Dillon has been nominated for 2017, 2018, and 2018 Critics' Choice Television Awards, the 2018 Screen Actors Guild Award, etc. Now I can stand naked in front of a mirror and really enjoy my reflection. White: And in that you get to explore other peoples relationship to their gender too. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. Asia has EINFHLUNG tattooed on their neck which means empathy in German. And we really havent really had much of that. I remember Danny Strongs character, Todd Krakow, making some snide remarks while he lost to you at the poker tournament. Dillon: I was told my whole life that my body meant that I was a girl and a woman, so I really couldnt conceive of how to separate my experience of myself versus what I was told I was supposed to be because of what my body looked like. If I were being misgendered all the time and I didnt have the support of family, friends and co-workers, it would tear me down way more. View agent, publicist, legal and company contact details on IMDbPro. Has the German word 'einfhlung' tattooed on the left side of their neck, which translates to 'empathy'. Asia Kate Dillon is making history as the first gender non-binary character on a mainstream television show, Showtime's " Billions .". And maybe its just like, Dont cast a cisgender actor in this role, or dont portray it in this way.. I think about the concept of angels and demons. Asia Kate Dillon is an American actress, producer, and director known for portraying various important roles in popular TV shows likeTaylor Mason in Billions andBrandy Epps inOrange Is the New Black. But for my character, its different. Asia Kate Dillon's Role on Billions Helped Inform Their Own Gender Identity. With warmth and openness and far more hand gestures than youll see from the actors taciturn characters, Dillon discussed soft power, killer costumes and how to show skin and emotion on camera. We were like, we just want it to be sexy. "Hi friends, I want to share with you that I am trans, my pronouns are he/they and my name is Elliot. Giving other people time is important. Its called Mirror Fire productions. Sometimes you say it until you believe it. A lot of eating disorder stuff, self-confidence issues. ', 3 dream interpretation tips, from a psychotherapist, Mental health of LGBTQ youth worsening in current 'hostile political climate', Self-care tips for irritable bowel syndrome. Is it hard and challenging to play a character like that? Instagram is a weird space. And frankly, that is one of the reasons that I really wanted to play the part, not only as an actor getting to play a character who is integral to the storyline, but a non-binary character who is integral to the storyline is extraordinarily important because then that characters story isnt just maybe a one- or two-episode arc. When did you start to get recognized as an actor?I started to get recognized when my season of Orange came out. What else are you up to?My partner and I co-founded a production company together. Dillon identifies as non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. And, mind you, that is not always how trans people describe being trans or encapsulating the trans identity. I wanted to encapsulate the feelings I had towards my trans identity in one post but that's really not why anyone is on here, including myself. Asia Kate Dillon: When I looked up the word non-binary, it said, "An umbrella term for any number of gender identities falling outside the boxes of man and woman.". Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. And sex is not a binary either. Sun: Absolutely. Baby representation on TV has been a really interesting space in animation and live action. Stillness is really important in terms of Taylor. Asia has mentioned that they are attracted to both males and females. We had Dillon in Issey Miyake in the middle of a busy street; Dillon in Maison Kitsun hanging off a rickety fire-escape. And I remember watching it as a little kid this is so wild when I think about my own gender journey and not really needing to ascribe a gender to Pat. Sun: Pat even got their own movie, didnt they? The Masons and these are just mild spoilers , Dillon: The Masons! As an actor, as a performer, do you have any preference towards playing characters whose gender identity matches your own? And by doing that Im inherently uplifting and supporting myself. A woman can have a beard and be a woman, but someone can have a beard and also be non-binary. ", "I think from my teenage years, when I decided I needed to express my femininity, I was happy with the way I looked. And one thing that I found really, really interesting about animation is that some folks would sort of skirt these rules, because these rules were very human-based. Two things Ill bring up. This was such a pleasure. Its imperfect, but I think some of those flaws are intentional because its not just about the non-binary character. Obviously sci-fi is the place where you can explore, but when its the only place that you explore gender outside of cisgender identity, you literally dehumanize it.. Transition music: A short segment from the intro theme. One show that I got hooked on during the pandemic was Good Trouble, which is a follow-up to Freeforms The Fosters. And the pussy hats not all pussies are pink, but that association is totally exclusive, and not just of nonbinary people, but of trans women and people of color. How incredible to have a nonbinary character show skin on television! Its definitely happening and happening more and more often, and I think thats a really big win. Thankfully, it very rarely feels like talking at people. Apply Bed Bath and Beyond Coupon and save 25% Off your entire purchase, Target Circle: up to 50% Off with Target promo code, Shop the new Polo Ralph Lauren x ASOS Exclusive Collection from $99, Michael Kors Promo Code: sign up for KORSVIP + Get 10% Off on first order, 2023 Cond Nast. And so for that not to be part of Taylors story on the show, to not have that special trope episode, its like, Thank goodness. Then it also said, "Some people may refer to this as gender fluid or genderqueer.". Its incredibly significant and the significance of it sits alongside something that is a bit difficult for me, which is the fact that according to GLAAD they have this poll about whether or not there have been any trans or non-binary people in a major Hollywood film because The Adjudicator, the character that I play, is never referred to as they/them, which are the pronouns The Adjudicator uses, thats what the script was changed to reflect that, it doesnt count as representation because nobody watching the movie knows that. Sun: Yeah, in other words, I think that theres a detector for whats a bad faith versus a good faith question. When I saw you bring out the jar I assumed youd be a vegan.I try to have as little a footprint as possible. You have played female characters in the past, such as Brandy on Orange is the New Black, and any concerns about whether or not that runs the risk of reinforcing a gender binary? Sun: Just to set the scene for people, this isnt like a quixotic quest. While there are characters and storylines in Star Trek that have always been about this exploration of gender non-conformity, I would say that it isnt really until more recently also as language has evolved and weve really solidified our concept of non-binary as a word to describe people it really isnt until the later works, Discovery, that weve had explicitly crafted non-binary characters. Does that make sense? Ad Choices, Billions Star Asia Kate Dillon Proves Theres No Such Thing as Menswear. White: Yes, exactly. My first day on set there was a Red Bull on Taylors desk, and we were like, Taylor wouldnt drink red bull. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. Do you feel like were finally starting to see real-world and more grounded representations, where you dont need to Trojan horse it into an allegory of a non-humanoid and say this is an alien, this is a soda cup or a car, but non-binary people can exist in practical reality in seeing these characters in more realistic shows? This is a good segue into representation, frankly, but its like, there was nobody like Taylor before Taylor. And it makes a lot of sense that Star Trek, based off of its founding principles that it has carried through its entire franchise over decades, would be progressive in conversations about gender. And I think just knowing that, understanding that, allows a possible road towards a way in which to approach conversation with a person who is coming from a totally different perspective, but who is holding it in the same place within themselves that you hold your beliefs. Like you just said, the Gotham Awards just announced that theyre abolishing it, the MTV Movie and TV Awards, you were the very first person in 2017 to present a gender-neutral acting category, and I believe that both the Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have gender-neutral categories. I dont know other than how do I know? I really like a structure. In person, Dillon also exhibits an extraordinary amount of empathy: In conversation they (more on that pronoun in a bit) graciously express empathy for Donald and Melania Trump, and they show it whenas we grab a quick lunch for this interviewthey are approached by a rather bold young gentleman (who could have walked straight off the Billions set) for an all-too-presumptuously familiar chat. I would say there are certainly more non-binary characters being written, and there are more non-binary actors being cast in those roles. Asia Kate Dillon talks about how landing a non-binary role on "Billions" has changed their career. Its not really your business, because its not your gender. Christianity, Catholicism, those are highly represented, usually by white characters. Sun: Precisely. So Ive learned to bring food, especially when I know its going to be a long day. Dillon: Unless Im misremembering, I had nothing to do with the writing of that scene. And of course you have Mafee there sort of defending Taylor to their dad, which I thought was beautiful. Thank you again. In the "Beyond the Binary" episode of THR's inclusion-themed podcast, the actor shares how their groundbreaking character helped them understand their own gender identity, and makes the case for gender neutral acting awards categories. White: Because I think that gender is a little more fluid for a lot of people, you can be a trans person whos also non-binary or a non-binary person who is trans, but being trans does not inherently make you non-binary, and being non-binary does not inherently make you trans. Asia Kate Dillon (born November 15, 1984) [1] is an American actor, best known for their roles as Brandy Epps in Orange Is the New Black and Taylor Mason in Billions. Next week, well explore narratives about undocumented immigrants with Blue Bayou filmmaker and star Justin Chon. I very much do think they are. This applies also to disability representation and also religious representation. Sun: Which is already lopsided to begin with. Like, why are you all so obsessed with Pats gender? I think it really could go a long way towards dismantling a lot of the toxic masculinity as well as some of the limits that women have. And theres all these different sorts of weird characters. We need to see roles written for them that are Emmy-, Tony- and Oscar-worthy. I can release she/her pronouns, I can use they/them. GQ may earn a portion of sales from products that are purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers. Will breakdowns look less binary? So our last two questions that I ask every podcast guest, Im going to give them both to you, because Ive realized that people get really confused when I only ask the first one. And so theyre actually forced to reckon with their own masculinity simply because Taylor is there. You know. And I do have plastic tupperware in my bag that I take home and wash. I would like [people] to understand that we are people. I think that non-binary identity is still sort of fresh for much of the industry. I like schedules so that I can just figure out how Im going to bob and weave through it all. And it really feels synchronistic to me that Taylor came into my life at a time when I was really ready to say, I have to be brave. They had more lines. Demi Lovato I think was the most recent really big announcement. And the teaching moment didnt hit anyone over the head with this is the righteous way to be because it rang true to the characters, and I think that is a credit to the extraordinary writing we have on the show. And it doesnt dictate what my gender identity is. I think a lot of the womens movement is perpetuating the synonymous use of woman and vagina, and not all women have vaginas, not all people with vaginas are women. Its time to be brave. And if Taylor, if this fictional character can exist in this fictional world and has been brave enough to get up and get dressed and go out there into the world and be who they really are, then I can too. You were speaking before we started recording about how that genre which well say is closely aligned with childrens content. Sun: These arent, like, Adult Swim cartoons that come on at 3 a.m. for grownups to watch, but this is childrens programming and is age-appropriate in terms of all the aspects in which that matters. And when it comes to non-binary identities, I think that also just holds true: White non-binary actors white characters, really, and thats really what this is. Were you comfortable with that? In 2017 and again, if you Google this, Im basically quoting but thats okay. Theres a sweet, beautiful song. And in terms of Bobbie, as soon as I saw Bobbie on screen, I was just like, This is so much of what I have been asking for in the sense that this is a character that people clearly are not trying to force one way or another. Ceed_Lab. They providevery different things. But someone where you never see their body or the body is not representative in the story of a binary necessarily, and/or someones gender identity is just man or woman or male or female, again, it really is going to be specific to the story and the character, but if its right for me, then itll be right. Do they get to have a voice? Im Rebecca Sun, senior editor of diversity and inclusion at The Hollywood Reporter. I dont think of Taylor as a hidden gem, but maybe they are. Weve long had queer villains, but were getting queer heroes, queer love interests, smart queer people and strong queer people. Or Im getting a coffee and I get called Miss, and I dont have the time or the energy. Thank you for your courage, your generosity and ceaselessly working to make this world a more inclusive and compassionate place. And I think particularly on a show like Billions which as I shared before we started recording, I came to with a lot of preconceived notions and prejudices about what a universe that is constructed of hedge fund traders and wheeling and dealing politicians would be like its kind of refreshing and Ill admit a little bit surprising. (Laughs.) https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/arts/television/asia-kate-dillon-billions.html, Asia Kate Dillon with Lance Reddick in John Wick: Chapter 3 Parabellum., I dont have to change my body, said Dillon. And I would say, youve encountered them in your real life, you just dont know it. I think about Malcolm in the Middle, the baby on Malcolm in the Middle just did not have a name or a gender for multiple episodes. But when someone is misgendering me repeatedly, even after Ive reminded them of my pronouns, then it becomes something else, and its pretty clear when that happens. They made multiple skits, they made a movie out of the fact that people could not identify who Pat was. But because the character I play is a neo-Nazi and white supremacist, people did not approach me on the street or say, Hey, oh my God, I like your character. [laughs] Occasionally I could tell people would recognize me and not say anything. ", "I'm not [transitioning] to be interesting. Pats gender was literally the running joke. Im a marginalized person because Im nonbinary, but I carry white body privilege. And based off of that response, we get a new crop of representation and each new step opens another door and we get closer to this thing that I think we all want, which is just a diversity of representation. Sun: Hes not toxic? I was really grateful to be playing a white antagonist in a Black Lives Matter storyline, because you need white antagonists to tell those stories. Does that make sense? It is exactly the kind of conversation that I believe that they would it just rang so true for the characters, and I thought it beautifully handled a father who genuinely loves his child, genuinely wants to be there and to learn, and admitted within the scene that hes trying, you know? Thats really all that they have. And this is laced in very conscious, purposeful ways throughout the entire series. Do you ever have days where you dont feel like having the conversation? ", "Part of my public work is talking about my life experiences and what I've gone through. There are certainly situations where Im not correcting people. And its pretty clear to me when Im engaging with people who arent coming from that place, who just arent coming from a place of love or who arent being genuine, and so because its generally fortunately for me pretty clear whos coming from where, Im able actually to put my energy into a place that feels worth it, where Im getting something out of the exchange too, versus talking to a brick wall that I know is really immovable. How does that change your dynamic? He is a gay man of color, and one of the things that he said really stuck out to me, and that was that queer white people get to be queer, and queer people of color are people of color first, which means that society looks at our race before it looks at our sexuality. The net worth of Asia Kate Dillon is estimated to be around $4 million while the figure on their annual income/salary is under review. Asia Kate Dillon is a fierce actor with arresting eyes and a buzzcut, known for breakout roles including a Nazi skinhead inmate in Orange Is the New Black and, currently, a calculating hedge-fund intern on Showtimes Billions. I've dealt with this feeling my entire life, and I know that I'm a woman deep down. And so to me, actor historically is a non-gendered word and thats the word Ive always used, but I needed to pose the question to the Emmy board, what actor and actress meant to them. Its about changing and evolving the material that is created within quote-unquote Hollywood.. Sun: Lets go ahead and jump in then, since you brought up animation. Like, how can I be this thing if people cant see it, if Im not showing it in some way via a physical, medical change? And, you know, again, as with all of the relationships on the show, the dynamic between the two characters was very complicated, very nuanced. Last Call with Carson Daly (2002-2019) Actress Abigail Spencer ( The Sweet Life (2016) and Timeless (2016)); actress Asia Kate Dillon ( Billions (2016)); band Partybaby perform. And I say, Well, Taylor wouldnt say policemen, they would say cop' or some gender neutral version of whatever the word is. And theres good progress. He is able to also hold respect for this person who presumably is the first non-binary person hes ever met, because he actually just sees Taylor as a tool that he can use to achieve his ultimate goal. In my real life, Im a Black Lives Matter social justice activist, and so it was incredibly interesting to me to play somebody coming from the totally opposite side, whose beliefs are as deeply entrenched as deeply felt, and given as much gravity, as I give my beliefs.
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