AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? Like the contemporary Buick Dynaflow, Ultramatic was designed to operate most of the time in its direct drive top gear. if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on the 310 tune and the truck still had all kinds of power even locked. Torque converter slip question - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums I had unlimited tow loaded and he thought maybe it wasn't playing nice with my trans. There may be more than one of these cookies, particularly if you access several password-protected posts with different passwords. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. They may persist for up to two years. I had "guessed" that it could have been a valve body issue when trying to diagnose on my own and I replaced that to no avail. This overran the rear unit planet carrier, unlocking the rear sun gears one-way clutch and putting the transmission in direct drive. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Fluid clutches also dont allow much engine braking. In first, the low band and one-way clutches held both sun gears, causing the ring gears to drive the planet carrier and output shaft at 43.3% of turbine speed (1 / 2.31). The torque converter is so essential to the global car market theres a global torque converter market. However, Wilson gearboxes were quite bulky and complex because the nature of their operation required a separate set of epicyclic gears for each ratio, including reverse. You must be at least 18 to comment. (Those pages do not currently discuss the storage of data in your browser (or other user agent) using technologies other than cookies, e.g., in web storage.) We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. Many of the other listed cookies are associated with the Google Analytics service, the Google AdSense advertising service, and/or other Google advertising and measurement products, which are subject to the Google Privacy Policy; see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site, and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of the Google Business Data Responsibility site (which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products) for more information. (Vimeo and the Vimeo logos are trademarks of Vimeo.com, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. If we have enabled multi-factor authentication (which requires an authentication code as well as a password to log into the administrative dashboard), the iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec_interstitial_browser cookie during the login process. 4. The impellers spun by the engine's crankshaft. Primary symptom includes a "rumble strip" like sound randomly while driving at speeds of about 40+. The stator redirects fluid from the turbine to the impeller, radically increasing the force of the fluid entering the impeller and multiplying the torque input from the engine. Google, AdSense, Google AdSense, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! Utimately, I installed a recycled transmission from a junk yard and a remanufactured torque converter from Ford. Okay, so it sounds like you were able to identify a potential root cause. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). In second, the low band was released and the multi-disc clutch engaged, causing both ring gears to rotate at turbine speed. I changed to the Spartan V2 a few weeks ago. We may sometimes present an alternative version of the sidebar offering different options, which may set the a11y-desaturated, a11y-high-contrast, and/or a11y-larger-fontsize cookies if you change those settings. Unfortunately, additional stall speed also increases the slippage in the converter. The transmission fluid is an important part of the torque converter in that it is used to provide the fluid coupling and smooth starts and without stalling the engine when the vehicle is stopped in gear. California residents also have the Right to Opt-Out of the sale of their personal information see the Do Not Sell My Personal Information page. Multiple different problems, some transmission related, some engine related, all resulting in driveability issues. Torque Converters - Unlocking The Secrets - Car Craft Magazine - MotorTrend Reach out to your local AAMCO transmission center when youre ready for your efficient, smooth and worry-free ride. The end result is the torque converterisn't able to transferthat power completely and efficiently from the engine to the transmission. For more information about what data PayPal services collect and how that data may be used, visit the "Legal Agreements for PayPal Services" page to review the PayPal Privacy Statement and Statement on Cookies and Tracking Technologies that apply in your location (the Statement on Cookies and Tracking Technologies that applies to each region is linked from within the applicable PayPal Privacy Statement). Third, make sure that your engine is running right because a transmission chuggle can be caused by many things. Wallace Racing BACK to Auto Math. For all the administrative and login cookies described here, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash while "UID" will be the administrative user's user ID number in this website's WordPress database. 5r110 torque slip | Ford Power Stroke Nation Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post Torque Converter slippage | PowerStrokeArmy If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. 10r80 Cars on the Dyno - TCC lock S or D - Mustang6G (author diagram). I checked for codes and had none that explained why it happened. When the two problems are combined, it could mean your torque converter is failing. Big cars weighing over 3,300 pounds generally need a converter with more torque multiplication. Second, consider draining and filling the transmission a few times since you can't get all the fluid out with just one drain/fill cycle. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. At some point Ford modified the wiring to include a thick rubber insulator on the wires that extended beyond the edge of the intake manifold to prevent the chaffing. To resolve the issue, I have reduce the desired slip to 10 rpm in 3-6th gear and increased the + side of the apply ramp table by about 10% across the board and up to 30% in the slip rpm of 2-12. Remember, you don't experience either symptom unless you have the wrong amount of fluid or the wrong fluid in the transmission. There will typically be several such cookies, each beginning with "gdpr" (e.g., gdpr[allowed_cookies], gdpr&5Bprivacy_bar&5D, and gdpr[consent_types]). The faster it spins, the more force it provides, which causes the fluid to flow faster and harder. Giving Slip the Slip: Lockup Torque Converters and Split Torque copyright 2023 AAMCO transmissions inc. I changed the transmission fluid (Mercon LV) at 63k miles back in 2017. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. With Torque Pro torque slip shows it at 0-6 rpm at 60 mph and when coming to a stop it jumps to 25-40 rpm then raises to 1400+. I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. In the Packard Ultramatic transmission, the input shaft drives the hub of the direct drive clutch and the input sun gear of the Ravigneaux gearset (all colored medium blue). Lockup clutches were used in some nonautomotive torque converters before World War II, but the first regular-production automotive application was the 1949 Packard Ultramatic Drive, which established a model for subsequent transmission designs. Really bad shuddering under acceleration, etc. Another important part of the torque converter and stall-speed equation is converter diameter. Datalogging converter lockup question | SVTPerformance.com I purchased my car 3 weeks ago from a new car dealership.. At stall speed, the impeller is spinning at engine rpm and the turbine is stopped. (author diagram). Those gear ratios were in addition to the torque multiplication provided by the torque converter. I have read and accepted the Privacy Policy and our These torque converters allow some slippage but it should not vary much from the desired PCM value. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip - EFILive The TC is a viscous coupling. Anyway, I downloaded FORscan on my laptop and loaded several pids for the transmission. This is a session cookie that verifies that the user has entered valid user credentials pending receipt of the correct authentication code; the cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). On some prewar bus and rail car transmissions with lockup torque converters, the lockup clutch was engaged manually, but automotive lockup clutches are designed to engage and disengage automatically. by SirHandyMan Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 am, Post Crazy Egg is a trademark of Crazy Egg, Inc. Optimizely is a registered trademark of Optimizely, Inc. in the United States, EU, and elsewhere. With the advent of overdrive automatic transmissions like the TH200-4R, the TH700-R4/4L60E, the massive 4L80E, the Ford AOD, and all the rest, the new-car companies were striving for improved fuel economy using overdrive. The payment button in the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box (and similar payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the administrative dashboard, which is not normally accessible except to logged-in administrative users) contains embedded content served by PayPal services. The DG series transmissions obtained their indirect ratios with a compound planetary gearset. Cookie Notice Whether it will add to my working knowledge is debatable, but my brain will benefit from the workout. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. You are using an out of date browser. By contrast, a fluid clutch always slips at least a little. iThemes is one of the Liquid Web family of brands; iThemes and Liquid Web are trademarks of Liquid Web, LLC.). A high-stall converter like a 4,000-rpm unit is not only lazy from a part-throttle-efficiency standpoint, but it also generates much more heat. Except as otherwise indicated, all written content and images are copyright Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. The original Packard Ultramatic had a four-element torque converter with a single stator (light blue) interposed between the first- and second-stage turbines, providing a stall ratio of 2.4:1 at 1,600 rpm. another masterpiece. One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. It's also important not to undersell converter weight as a contributing factor to maximizing acceleration. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. You also need to move forward with viable options that will help you get your torque converter fixed. Privacy Statement - Cookies whose names begin with "optimizely" are associated with the Optimizely digital experience platform (which is subject to the Optimizely Privacy Policy; the "Privacy" section of the Optimizely Trust Center provides additional information about Optimizely privacy practices, including a link to the Data Processing Agreement that applies to personal data the Optimizely services process on customers' behalf that may be subject to certain regional privacy and/or data protection laws, while their "Cookies and localStorage in the Optimizely snippet" help page provides additional technical information about the cookies and/or similar technologies used by that platform). Currently the vehicle is much better to drive. You've now repaired or replaced your torque converter if it exhibited any of the above common torque converter problems. The one-way stator clutch (fuchsia) allows the stator (light blue) to freewheel in the direction of engine rotation, but reverse rotation locks the stator against the fixed stator shaft (dark gray), providing torque multiplication under some conditions. Stator The stator is called the middleman. Since taking all the of the steps outlined above, I can confirm that the transmission has been running properly and the clutch working as expected. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool I no longer monitor the forum, please either post your question or create a, I am just trying to see how the management of this company can justify ignoring, or walking away from the T43 stuff right now, I am aware of the size of the Dodge Diesel market.I for one do not care about Dodge Cummins products, I have turned so many of my customers onto EFI Live from HPT or SCT that it kills me to have to tune a TCM with one software and ECM with another. Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. Your ring and pinion (gear size) Your circumference or roll out of the rear tires. My SunCoast converter has a little slip. The reason for increasing stall speed is directly related to the engine's torque curve. Well Aaron . The fluid did not look dirty. You only monitor it when the converter is locked. If you change certain aspects of the site's appearance using the accessibility sidebar, it may set these cookies to manage and remember your settings. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! For more information, please see our Click to reveal Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, Re: Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.co 733.0.html. The Vimeo Cookie Policy does not currently disclose the normal durations of the cookies and similar technologies the Vimeo platform uses, but it appears that some may remain in your browser (or other user agent) for as long as your settings permit. Hydraulic slippage also offers some advantages during acceleration: As with a plate clutch, a certain amount of slip makes for a much smoother takeoff. Unlike a reduction gear, this speed reduction doesnt multiply engine torque. abs thank you for posting your experience here. Second, the nonlinear relationship between impeller and turbine speed can be troublesome. Generally, by the time you reach the 60-foot mark on the dragstrip, torque multiplication is effectively eliminated and the turbine and impeller speeds are close to achieving what converter manufacturers call coupling speed. The stock converter wouldn't with a big tune unless I was cruising at light throttle. 3. and 5. Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. Less than 15rpm is normal and more than that will cause shudder. Terms of Service - A lot of bad things can happen to your car when the torque converter starts failing. We were wrong. 7.3L Power Stroke - Aftermarket & Performance. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. Once your torque converter starts failing, you need to be knowledgeable about what torque converter problems will disable your car? would it work,yet throw out aod default codes. Over 10 RPM is real slip. Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. The vehicle suffered a torque converter failure at around 140k miles. Akamai is a registered trademark or service mark of Akamai Technologies, Inc. in the United States (Reg. Fluid clutches fluid couplings and torque converters have many advantages for automotive transmissions, but with those benefits comes a cost: fuel-wasting hydraulic slippage even at cruising speed. This is a red flag that lets you know you may need an expert to repair it for you. 51.91.16.67 (Google, DoubleClick, YouTube, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. Your IP: Think of it as two fans facing eachother inside an enclosure. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. Happens roughly 1-3 times in 30 mile drive at speeds of up to 60mph, and much more frequent at highway speeds (70+). abs, do you have any recommendations on how to troubleshoot a failing torque converter using ForScan? If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on You can hide the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box and prevent the loading of its embedded content by going to the "Consent Management" tab and switching the "Allow PayPal Button" toggle to "OFF." The result will be every car will have efficient, smooth, and comfortable rides. PLEASE DON'T SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED CONTENT YOU AREN'T AUTHORIZED TO USE! I have yet to read this monumental work in depth. Not all the listed cookies and/or data items are necessarily set in all instances, and there may sometimes be others not listed above, particularly if you are logged into a Google account. This very similar to what I experienced with my failure. This creates the greatest speed difference between the turbine and the impeller and therefore the maximum torque multiplication. Thanks for copying the information from my other post here. Borg-Warner continued to sell the DG series for several more years to some non-U.S. customers, but U.S. automakers would not rediscover the lockup clutch for another 20 years. Your car's automatic transmission has a torque converter. But once they are damaged, you will experience fluid leaks. Many aftermarket companies offer performance lockup torque converters that can provide a higher stall speed without sacrificing the advantages of the lockup converter for highway use. I was towing my 5th wheel and the temp went up to 285. If the engine is not running smoothly and/or delivering consistent power, it can cause fluctuation in the "Desired" versus "Actual" torque converter clutch slippage along with a surging feeling. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool.