fr stephen de young dissertation

Ive said that about 20 times tonight, but this is I dont know. Andrew: Doesnt everyone? Yeah, and then again Hebrews 10: How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of Godand heres the important part here, for our purposesand has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified and has outraged the spirit of grace. So, again, the blood of the covenant does this sanctification. No, what hes doing is hes describing what actually happens to Christ, but hes using language that should remind you of the Day of Atonement ritual in order for you to make that connection, the connection that actually does exist. Fr. [Laughter]. Fr. So tonight were wrapping up this three-part series on sacrifice by talking about atonement. And so, of course, as weve mentioned before in a previous episode, this is over against the Apkallu myth and other similar storiesPrometheus in the Greek tradition. Hes wrapped about with a scarlet, Fr. Fr. Stephen: Because of how its conjugated. Fr. Well, that is our show for today. And so thats one significant element of this eschatological Day of Atonement, and this is the one thats particularly emphasizedits all in Hebrewsbut this is particularly emphasized in the Johannine literature. Fr. Fr. Okay, Im just trying to get better like Im doing a diet, a spiritual diet.. Fr. Well, like I said, it is Goat Week, and here at Goat Week weve got you covered. So, speaking of that ritual context, then, the rest of what were going to be talking about is the ritual of atonement, the Day of Atonement. And then he also takes away the sins of the world, meaning the sins that the people commit; he takes away their sins. Okay, perfect example; this is probably the classic example: Matthew 27:25, where the people say in response to Pilate, His blood be upon us and upon our children. Now, given everything we just said about the blood of the goat, and given everything you should know if youre a Christian about what the blood of Christ does, if his blood is upon you, thats actually good. Fr. I have all these details from the Day of Atonement ritual, and Im just going to ascribe that to whats happening with Christ. Stephen: Yeah, you could pretty safely use the same list every year, because all of that had happened again. Stephen De Young from Lafayette, Louisiana. Stephen: Yes, so allow me to feed that a little bit. Fr. All right. Fr. Foiled again! Ive got all these sheep. Andrew: Yeah, which makes no sense if you think atone means make up for or pay off or whatever, some kind of satisfaction theology. Stephen: [Laughter] I thank you for the courtesy laugh, for the golf-clap of laughter. I dont know. Andrew: But we have two goats. Stephen: This idea of, Hey, maybe the serpent in Eden was telling the truth. Stephen: Right, they have to be GOAT goats. I appreciate it. Just as St. Peter had, St. Paul saw the light of Gods glory, and heard a voice from heaven. Fr. Fr. Stephen: Because of this sort of schism in the way we bizarrely celebrate scholarship of the New Testament from the Old Testament. Andrew: Yeah, which we talked about before, a few episodes back. So not only for our sins, which are taken away, but for the whole world, which is now purified and made holy and sacred, first in potency, first, as with everything eschatological, this is happening in real time, like we talked about in our Halloween episode, but this will ultimately come to fruition, then, in the new heavens and the new earth, just as, right now the evil one is bound and in a hole, and hell be chucked in the lake of fire then at that latter point. Andrew: Yes, right, so the idea is to take the sins of the people and get them out of the place where sin does not belong. Fr. Fr. Hes clarifying; hes making it abundantly clear: This is not a sacrifice to Azazel. Stephen: So the whole thing is burned. Fr. Stephen: At the end of his trial, he says they wrap a scarlet robe about him, which is kind of a weird way to describe putting a robe on. Stephen: Yeah, but were not just playing the Nope card. Fr. Its sharing a meal with your god. Stephen: [Laughter] Nothing to do with thatas far as I know. Fr. I dont know. It doesnt matter if someone in the back was complaining; it doesnt matter about fake coughing: he had to do a lot of incense, because the incense was covering. Fr. The Judaism at the time of Christ was entirely centered on the temple, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70. Stephen: Yes, of material objects and physical space. Fr. But what hes on to is what St. Matthew was talking about. interject to be respectful and listen. I mean, is is a good goat and a bad goat? March 12, 2021 But that is a minor detail. He is the pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church (Antiochian) in Lafayette, Louisiana, and holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. Stephen: Baptists across the South have just, you know, re-tuned their car radios away from AFR. But, right, so atonement, at-one-ment: I looked this up, so I have on my desk a gigantic dictionary called the Oxford English Dictionary. Name that word! How are you doing? So, it was good talking with you. That was another thing that I was disappointed to discover was actually not in the Bible. Yes, yes, yes! Where there post-flood Nephilim, were Nephilim "giants," was King Og the result of "demonic fornication," etc. Fr. So thats the idea. The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century It is being explicitly pitched as a defense of Eastern Orthodoxy as such. But people have sort of imbibed this idea, so they sort of cite it. He also discusses Chapter 10 in its entirety. They see this as a kind or type of atonement. The goat is not caused to suffer. Fr. Stephen De Young inquires into what they reveal about the nature of Christ and His creation. Why is that aww! To cover the taste of bad food? The real question we want to know is which Christian tradition has faithfully carried on the legacy of the apostles. Stephen: Az is a goat. So some people will try to will want to translate Azazel, instead of seeing it as a name, as a proper name, will want to translate it as something like the goat who goes away. This is where scapegoat comes from, because scape- like escape. Escape is go away: the goat that goes away. Matthew 8:14-17, just to summarize, this is where Christ heals the mother-in-law of Peter and then also, after that, lots of people are brought to him who are demon-possessed and sick people, and he heals them He drives out the spirits; it says he cast them out with a word. To browse Academia.edu and the wider internet faster and more securely, please take a few seconds toupgrade your browser. Im going to describe this. [Laughter] Dont the daily offerings cover it? The understanding of the geography, biblical text and the cosmological significance of the area of Transjordan, and specifically Bashan in the Bible, give valuable understanding to what Jesus expressed: And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man.". Andrew: Yeah, another super-important point, that the goat that gets the sins is not killed and cannot be killed as a sacrifice. Andrew: Yeah, so the Temple has to be reconsecrated; it has to be purified. Copyright 2005-2023 Ancient Faith Ministries, Inc.All Rights Reserved. Stephen: And consecrate them as sacred space. You wouldnt like it. Fr. Andrew: So the blood is drained, the body is burnt. Fr. A lot of them who didnt know 2 and 3 John existed accepted 1 John. Stephen: Theres a tendencyand this is not an indictment of anybody, because, I mean, Ive heard scholars whom I greatly respect publicly talk about, when theyre talking about sacrifices in the Old Testament, say, Oh, yeah, the priest would put the sins on the animal and then kill it, and Im like thats its just not there! Fr. Fr. So Ill take the heat for that one. So we dont know how it was killed. Photius, welcome to The Lord of Spirits podcast. Fr. So how could the Jews who did not convert to Christianity still practice their faith? The scholar on Slavonic pseudepigrapha so if you want to get into Slavonic pseudepigraphaand who doesnt?is Andrei Orlov, and hes written a ton, and a lot of its available for free on the internet, if you want to read scholarly journal articles. Stephen: Yeah, and a solid 80% of kidding aside, the point you made about it being references to the Day of Atonement is again important. What does it mean? While underscoring the continued need to take into account the historical context that forms the background to the New Testament (at least I got that right), Fr. Send it out. Fr. I liked the book, and I am so grateful for the discussions it has spawned within my own Orthodox congregation concerning the role of historical scholarship in interpreting Scripture. Oh, man, whats happening here? [Laughter] I just need to read this word. Andrew: Yeah. And so, when the tabernacle is first consecrated, all of those objects are built. Just so you all know, its really good. Fr. The important thing is just: you have to get the blood out of it. Fr. Both blaspheming pagans! [Laughter], Fr. Stephen: Right, and this is the only sacrificial ritual of any kind in the Torah in which sins are placed on an animal. The goat is notthis goat is not punished or abused in any way. the notoriously difficult Gen. 6:1-4 (Stuckenbruck 355). Andrew: Its a response. ", Nephilim: The Children of Lilith. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:1-4)-period (keep the "reliably" qualifier in mind). Fr. Andrew: [Dramatic groan] Brutal! The context is the purification of the space thats happening. We just walked through the Day of Atonement ritual, the goat for Yahweh, the goat for Azazel, and what those things mean. Its remembered as being the decisive battle of the American Late Unpleasantness. Well, okay, lets talk about St. Matthew. [Laughter] So instead, now, this goat, this completely corrupt goat, has to go outside the camp, the city, outside, back out into the bad place, and its going to Azazel. Im getting a little giddy here, because when we were going over this in our preparation, it was just stunning to me: once you have clarity about, especially what the Old Testament says, theres all kinds of bits of the New Testament that just light up, left and right. Fr. A dissertation submitted to the faculty of the School of Graduate Studies, Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion (2009) . The idea of aliens, giants and mysterious monolithic structures has become popularized. And then, verse 17, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet, saying: He himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses. So Matthew is saying this is now fulfilled, the Suffering Servant passage of Isaiah, by Jesus healing ministry of sickness and demon-possession. So this is about that. They are first mentioned in Genesis chapter 6 as the progeny of the sons of God and the daughters of men. Although the psychological characteristics of the Nephilim are not specifically described in the Bible, they are pictured in the Second Temple writings as being very belligerent, sexually aggressive, and prone to conflict. All right. I dont know. Fr. Fr. Im Fr. They are not sitting down and having hors doeuvres with Azazel. Yeah, so why? So I mention all that because, as we read Scripture more and as we live the Christian life more, if we understand what it is that Christ is doing and how the Scripture tells us what hes doing, then that gives meaning to so much of our lives. Stephen: Yeah, so I dont want to get too granular about this, because theres actually, when you get into literature about thisI did my dissertation related to this, so I read all the literature on this. So Greek words in the New Testament are treated as these sort of independent entities without reference to what theyre translating, and then that allows you to pack a whole bunch of things in. The views of select philosophers and theologians on the implications of the Mesopotamian and apocryphal texts in the testaments will be explored. Fr. Fr. Christ is the High Priest who does this final Day of Atonement, the one that ends them all. And he takes that over from this Second Temple literature. Fr. Fr. Stephen is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog. Like, no ones ever going to call it the Day of Purgation; it just doesnt have a ring to it. Enter the email address you signed up with and we'll email you a reset link. Ill take it. All right, thank you! Almost from the beginning of the book, Fr. Photius: Yes, sir. As talked about in the book of Enoch, this would be Cains line. Stephen: [Laughter] So that is what is done with the goat for Yahweh in the ritual. Stephen: Right, so as I mentioned, all of our earliest sort of interpreters within the Jewish world who talk about Azazel have him as this being, this actual demonic being, and the most prominent places where hes discussed in terms of what Second Temple literature are focusing on are 1 Enoch, whats called 2 Enoch or Slavonic Enoch, and the Apocalypse of Abraham. Stephen: Yeah! Two ancient sites, the Pergamon Altar in Berlin, as well as Rujum el-Hiri in the Golan Heights in Israel, will be included to demonstrate the possibility that these fallen ones may be loosed upon mankind during the time of the Time of Jacobs Trouble on earth. Andrew: Okay, but havent I heard that the goat actually got throne off a cliff? So that spacewe talked last time, when we were talking about the other offerings, that there are sort of concentric circles, and that the closer you get to where God is dwelling So God is dwelling in the holy of holies in the tabernacle, so that is the place where the threat of this corruption is most dire. Stephen: And the people, they mock him and they spit on him. Stephen De Young concludes the discussion of Romans 10. Fr. So thats sort of the first covering that takes place, is through that incense offering. Does it have anything to do with suffering or punishment? All right. although not Pennsylvania, but the Emmaus that my Emmaus is named after. Stephen: So this isnt transactional, so its not an issue of, like, Oh, well, maybe there were some sins that got missed during the year, so were going to do this sort of catch-all Day of Atonement to pick up those ones that were missed. Those were being done perpetually to cover all of the sinning that was going on, that everyone knew was going on in Israel. But the one that everyone agreed on, out of all of the general epistles or catholic epistles, was 1 John. This is from an apostle, letting us know how to interpret that Isaiah passage. All right, so weve covered the basics of the Day of Atonement ritual and the two goats, here on Goat Week on The Lord of Spirits, and were going to get back in just a moment, but first were going to take a short break, so well be right back. Thats his indictment; thats the charge against him. Andrew: They are not, and most people who have breakfast are not breaking a fast. Fr. The fact that some of the most exciting work done in the Second Temple context to the New Testament is being undertaken by non-orthodox scholars like N.T. Fr. It has to be made holy, set apart again for the use of God alone. This podcast takes us through the Holy Scriptures in a verse by verse study based on the Great Tradition of the Orthodox Church. Stephen: Well, this is So, Hanukkah is the re-dedication of the Temple. All right. Fr. Im just going to say that at the outset. This is. Other sacrificial rituals where you see the laying-on of hands, thats to designate the animal as a sacrifice. Mike Schmitz), Let's Read the Gospels with Annie F. Downs, Fr. Stephen: That would be like an inception; yeah, that might be good. And thats what described, like in Daniel, as the abomination of desolation, because it rendered Yeah, they couldnt use the Temple any more after that. The answer, according to Fr. One of the doctrines that Rabbinic Judaism removed from their religion was the teaching widespread in the Second Temple Period that God is more than one person. They come into power in the same way that our sin brings us under the power, brings us into bondage under those hostile powers. Stephen: Do you have to pay royalties now that you said that? And our purpose is as St. Johns purpose: These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ and that, believing, you may have life in his name. Thats the purpose of this podcast. Now that dome is expanded to encompass the whole world, because Christnot only does he not just send the stuff back to Azazel, he gets rid of Azazel. Fr. These. And the rest of the show will be explaining that joke. Fr. Its quite all right. Why is that mentioned? The Place of Man in the Ontological and Cosmological Dualism of the Diablo, Darksiders and Devil May Cry Game Series, Satan the Great Dragon Enlil, Ushumgallu and Bashmu. So he gives some of these details, so some of the details we get from that are a scarlet cord being tied around the goats head, and that when they after the sins had been placed on the goat, the people would sort of gather in the streets, and they would get reeds, and theyd strike the goat and hit it to sort of drive it out. So, using the color scarlet, using this wrapped around language. Its funny: sometimes well getpeople will ask us questions like: Which Bible scholar says this? But completely wrong. Andrew: Yeah, like when were serving liturgy, we turn the page in the book. Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick in Emmaus, Pennsylvania, and joining me tonight is my co-host, Fr. Theyre not out in the wilderness; theyre not encamping in tents. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University and is the host of the The Whole Counsel of God podcast and co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast on Ancient Faith Radio. Okay, so, but there was something else also, a connection from John 17. Stephen: And this is why we eat ceremonial cakes on Meatfare Sunday. (more), Descending to Ascend: Prayer as Initiation Into Divine Judgment in the, Mind the Gap: First Principles and Popular Theology, Participants in the Altar: in I Corinthians 10:14-22, Energies of the Trinity: The Energies as Tripersonal Communion in Gregory Palamas, V. S. Soloviev and the Russian Roots of Personalism. Im like, why dont we start with: What does the Bible say? Well, its Goat Week on The Lord of Spirits podcast! Fr. Fr. https://t.co/34f7bN9K4d, The intellectual life is like a love affair, or like prayer. When I say scholarly I mean that the book has emerged out of Fr. And again, this is all about not dying. Fr Stephen explains it a way that finally makes sense. Theyre preserved for us in Slavonic and were being copied in monasteries in the Orthodox world right up into the 16th century when the printing press was invented, so they were being deliberately preserved for us within the Church, not just accidentally we found them in the desert somewhere.. Mr. No sins are put on this goat that is being killedwell talk about that more in a minute. Fr. They werent sitting there with the knife, and keep the fire going at the burnt-offering altar, because someone might show up with a pigeon. Fr. Were talking about atonement, and weve just taken a really whirlwind trip through the New Testament, just, I dont know, astonishingly beautiful stuff, looking at how Christ is both goats in the Day of Atonement ritual. Stephen is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog. It becomes this mechanism that I sort of get benefited that benefits me, rather than something that I ritually participate in. Stephen: But so if we go back, then, to the Semitic root thats behind all this, you end up with what are called kefir verbs. The Whole Counsel of God: Galatians, 3:19-20. But he does his complete English Bible, and he uses that phrase to one or one-ment, and then even at one point he uses at-one. And then it was in the 16th century, in the Tyndale Bible in 1526 that he actually standardizes this word to create this new word, atone, as both a verb and also a noun, so you get that at-one-ment, atone comes into being as an English word specifically for translation of the Bible. Or a curse? The definition is not as simple as it may seem, since some may employ it metaphorically such as referring to a giant of industry. Fr. Fr. Do Orthodox Christians have any teaching on atonement? Andrew: Yeah, thats cool. Fr. Stephen: was making this cloud so that he wouldnt actually see Yahweh when he appeared. So it had this prominence beyond those other books. It has become fashionable within American Eastern Orthodox convert culture to deny that the Orthodox believe in substitutionary atonement. Andrew: Right! Stephen: Yeah, and note that its not just Jews who are doing these Day of Atonement things. Stephen: The corruption of the earth, of the whole world. The only other place where the phrase for the whole world, or the phrase the whole world, tou olou kosmou, occurs in 1 John is in chapter 5, the verse we read: The whole world lies under the power of the evil one. So if you want to interpret the whole world in 1 John 2:2 as referring to the people in the world, then St. John is saying that all the people in the world lie under the power of the evil one, which would include himself and the Church, and that makes no sense in the context of the epistle where hes clearly distinguishing between two groups of people. Stephen: In fact, its canonically forbidden to bring livestock into the church. Okay, now we get to talk about one of my favorite placesEmmaus! What do we need this for? Im going to give you this job, so look this up, Richard. Stephen De Young continues his discussion through Romans Chapter 5. Stephen: And these things that the evil one has wrought in the world are here in the world and need to be purged out, need to be purified, need to be atoned for in that sense, need to be removed, wiped away, blotted out. Stephen: Sin leaves a taint, not just on us. So when we look at the Day of Atonement we have to start with the fact that it is doing something different than the sin-offerings are doing. Well see more of that as we go on, but to reiterate here that this is not, in its biblical usage, any kind of specialized technical theological term. Stephen has blogged about previously here as well. Im like: the rope thing is awesome! Rather, the doctrine of God being multiple hypostases was already widely accepted even before the incarnation. It has nothing to do with Denzel Washington, probably, John Goodman. So I think thats hopefully the important take-away, beyond all the fun stuff and interesting Bible tidbits; that this isnt just about knowing the right interpretation, thinking the right thing, but its about experiencing the reality of Christ. Well, who would have been doing this? Fr. Is the ecclesial body of Eastern Orthodoxy the most orthodox (faithful to the apostles), or is the most faithfulness to orthodoxy perhaps found in a Protestant denomination, or maybe Roman Catholicism? Fr. And then, when eventually Israel makes its way to the promised land, its Israel, and then the nations are out there. Fr. And the ark he would dip his index finger in and then sort of whip it in order to sprinkle the blood onto the ark itself. Hebrews 9: Likewise he sprinkled the tent and all the vessels used in the worship with the blood. Sometimes, it is used to describe someone who is a foot taller than average; other times, it refers to someone who is many feet taller, an entire body length taller, or, perhaps, various body lengths taller. Fr. [Laughter]. Fr. So, I dont know, its cool. But 1 John is actually the book of the New Testament that uses the actual word, ilasterion, atonement, most frequently. Stephen began dismantling many assumptions that had been part of the taken-for-granted background to my understanding of Christian origins. [Sigh], Fr. Its not a big mystery. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. Fr. Fr. If you think about it, this has to be the case. Well, for first-century Judeans, that is the place of the Battle of Emmaus, and that is related to the Maccabees. Fr. And that can lead to a lot of despair. So the other goat is for Azazel. That mentions Azazel, doesnt it? He purifies even them. Strictly speaking, thats not Christianity; its Gnosticism. That would have been a great quest line. That doesnt make it not historical. [Laughter]. Andrew: Alas. Fr. Yeah, theres more to it than that, of course. Stephen: And then as Hebrews again makes plain in Hebrews 11-12, Christ dies outside the camp. The blood of that goat is used to purify the sanctuary, to purify sacred space. Stephen: Im Um, actually"ing you in real time. Fr. Andrew: Did you have a second question? Andrew: Yeah, all those technological advancements. Stephen: Yeah, I mean you may have to deal with this mercy-seat stuff, but now you know how that works, so youre all set for Leviticus. Awesome stuff! Stephen: Yeah. Fr. The modern world does not acknowledge but is nevertheless haunted by spirits - angels, demons and saints. Fr. Stephen: Ruined, yeah. Theres like cheering going up across the country now because we mentioned Azazel. Stephen dismantles, and one very dear to my heart. So the correct translation is not only for our sins, but for the whole world. The words, those of, do not occur. What do you do with it? This is Christ as being the goat for Yahweh. Length: 2:12:00. So now were going to talk about how, number one, they actually didnt get it quite right, but what is the concept that that word is attempting to point to? It says that Christ is the atonement or the propitiation for our sins, not for ours only but also for the whole world. So hes sort of the main motivator of that. So thats what were going to do now. Stephen: And are listening to that Mexican radio station that used to come through on my microphone. I mean, the nature of this podcast is notthe purpose of it, I should sayis not to be apologetical; were not here to say, This is why Catholics and Protestants and various other kinds of religious people are wrong! But in this particular case, even though this episode is not primarily apologetical, as the whole podcast is not, there is a disconnect that happens for people when they read the Scriptures and, as weve seen, bring a lot of assumptions into the Scriptures. We appreciate hearing from you. Andrew: Yeah, so the goat is sent to Azazel. Fr. I can understand all that, and thats fun: figuring out all the details, all the systems, all the lore. But when Judaism was invented in the 6th century, they rejected much of their heritage that overlapped with Christianity, from the Septuagint to the doctrine of God being more than one person. Fr. Fr. So it does end up being germane to our topic this evening. Amen. And then what happens next? [Laughter] Its the opposite! Andrew: Which is not the way confession works either, by the way, in case anyones thinking, Wait, what? Theres a wonderful parallel, in some ways, between these things. And so when the lots are cast, one of these two goats is designated as the goat for Yahweh, and the other goat is designated as the goat for Azazel. The Bible in a Year (with Fr. Andrew: Right, right. Dr. Stephen De Young, creator of the popular The Whole Counsel of God blog and podcast, traces the lineage of Orthodox Christianity back to the faith and witness of the apostles, which was rooted in a first-century Jewish worldview. Andrew: I mean, I love that word. Andrew: Yeah, so you have two goats I suddenly remember that joke that goes around on Facebook: You have two cows and then it has this list of all these economic systems. Stephen: And the next verse in 1 John, verse 13, says that the reason he killed Abel is that Abels works were good and Cains works were evil. And then, so the Israelites are referred to as sheep sort of all through the Old Testament, and their leaders as shepherds, because theyre these sheep who are now set free from Egypt and brought out into this new pasture, all of that symbolism. Its a direct reference. Fr. Fr. [Laughter]. Fr. Andrew: Now everyones going to want to read it! The other problem with seeing atonement as a kind of system is that it actually disconnects it from the actual Christian life. When the book of Enoch lists what the different rebellious angelic beings taught to humans, what Azazel is listed as having taught are the same things that Tubal-cain in Genesis 4:2 because if theres anything people love more than Slavonic pseudepigrapha, its genealogies. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. It sounds like were FBI profilers. Maybe Fr. Thats what he named himself, and he actually went into the Temple in Jerusalem and sacrificed pigs on the altar to Zeus. Stephen: Who get what St. Matthew is doing here, and not only do they get what St. Matthew is doing here, but they talk about this in terms of atonement. I can tell you all about Arrakis, the desert planet; I can tell you all about Gallifrey; I can tell you all about Nimbus [III], the planet of galactic peace. where does john colbert go to college, 50 mph at 30 feet, national high school marching band rankings,
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